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What Women Want Today
What Women Want Today

Episode · 1 year ago

Intuitive Eating with Menopause Nutritionist, Dr Jenn Salib- Huber

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In today's episode, I talk with Dr. Jenn Salib Huber who is on a mission to help women thrive in mid-life.  Take one peek at her Instagram account menopause_nutritionist and you will see the evidence as she continually shows up to provide valuable information for women who are navigating peri-menopause.

Hello and welcome to what women want today podcast, you might be asking yourself right about now. Well, what do women want? I mean, we're pretty complex creatures, right. Well, I think we want it all, and I'm here to explore with you. My name is Terry Kellum's I'm your host. Go grab your favorite beverage. I've already got my glass of wine, and let's get started. Back to what women want today podcast. Oh you guys, I am Geeking out over here about today's guests. I've been known to proclaim myself as a knowledge junkie, and today's guest has been on my radar for a while now. I've been following her in social media and really enjoying her content. So when I stumbled upon today's topic, is something she has expert knowledge about, well, let's just say I'm definitely looking forward to day's conversation. Her name is Dr Jennifer Salib Huber and she is a Canadian registered Dietitian and naturopathic doctor, and she is on a mission to help women thrive in Midlife. She's been practiced for more than sixteen years. She helps women navigate the physical and emotional changes that happen in perrymenopause and menopause, including their search for food freedom and body confidence. Working from a health that every size approach, she teaches women to become intuitive eaters and build body confidence in their s for s and s well. First in the integrative treatment options available to women in Midlife, she helps women come up the treatment strategy that meets their unique needs for better menopause. She strongly believes that women need to come together to normalize this experience and offers online programs to help women feel their best. Her online program the thinking women's guy to Perry menopause, is an online program open to women in any stage of Perry and menopause who are looking to regain confidence in their bodies and themselves. Jen, welcome to the show. How are you today? So much, ferry, for having me. I'm great and I'm really excited to be here. I'm so excited too, so I always start out by asking my guests to share a little bit about themselves. WHO IS JEN? Well, you know, I think that I'm a well rounded mom who is in the throes of Terry menopause myself and kind of fall into that less than five percent who are likely to be fully married, fully menopausal by forty five. So I have been. Yeah, so I'm kind of one of those people that really went into Perry menopause early in my mid S and and I'm knocking on menopause's door as we speak. So, but, you know, I am currently living in the Netherlands. Were on a little bit of an expet journey, but on the Canadian through and through and look forward to returning in a couple of years and just really enjoying supporting women in the pays of life and and just connecting with women. So, but about me. And I'm a mom and I have three kids and yeah, so busy, busy face of life, but also an amazing face of life. Oh that's awesome. I love that. Your mission is to help women thrive in life. It took me a while to get here where I am today, to be confident in the woman who I am. You know, just I'm learning and still learning, to be vulnerable, to say no sometimes. I've been a lifetime time people pleaser and conflict avoidance, but I saw my moms struggle a lot and I think it could have been different for her. So I'm on a mission to I love that. I wouldn't. Yeah, I want to help women find fulfillment in this part of their stormy story. So tell me, what does it look like in your in your mind, to see women thrive? Well, I just want back track a little bit and talk about how you mentioned that, you know, you felt like a people please are for a long time and and I hear this...

...so much and the conversations that I have with women who are in any stage really, you know, Midlife, just kind of feeling like they're pulls in all these different directions. And I like to gently remind women that there's a different biological programming there that when we're in our primary productive years, you know, for which for most of us is are kind of teens, twenties and S, you know, we're driven by estrogen, which is our nurturing hormone. So estrogen, you know, really is I have a great friend and colleague who describes estrogen as the hormone that helps us not to eat our baby. You know, it's really it helps us to want to nurture things and grow things and support things, and so I think this is a bit of biological programming that is wants us to help. We're helpers we're the nurturing part of the species in many ways, and as we start to get into Perry Menopod, there's a really distinct shift there where all of a sudden that we don't love our families and the things that we were supporting before. That's not it at all, but it's that we can almost kind of see ourselves again and we start to see ourselves on the other side and think, Hey, I want to nurse that person, I want to Nurish the person I was, you know, thirty years ago who had all these different interests, and so I think that for many of us who are in this stage, there's a really strong, you know, I guess you can call it, just like this curiosity about what else can can our life be about? So I think that you're on the right track with that. Oh my gosh, that is like goosebumps, like it's just kind of bringing it all together. Why so many women? I talk to her like I know and I kind of joke about a little bit and I say it's, you know, the women's version of a midlife crisis, but I really don't like the term crisis. But it's that sudden, or not maybe even sudden, but you know, kind of like you're finally allowing yourself to recognize these thoughts that you're having that, hey, I don't know if I like crime at right now. Well, I love Renne Brown to take on us and her quote, and I've shared this before my social media, that you know, midlife grabs you by the shoulders and you know says like listen up right. You know this. This is, if you know, either move forward in the path that you want or not. But you're at the decisionmaking points. So yeah, and I think that there's the change in our hormonal suit. That happens and Perrymnopad. So if I can just talk about that a little bit. So you know, reproductive years we had very predictable hormone soup. We make the soup every month. The ingredients are the same, the quantities are the same, it tastes same, it you know nothing, nothing about it is newer exciting. It just happens on a regular basis. And so that means that in the first part of our cycle we have lots of estrogen and the second half of our cycle we have lots of progesterone, and it's kind of just teetertotter. That happens on a predictable cycle. So I always say that you know if premenopause, meaning you're reproductive, peak ears, are a well oiled machine. CARRYMNOPAD is like a car that's sputtering as it runs out of gas. And so what happens is that the ingredients in this soup are changing. We now often have more estrogen, up to three times more estrogen, as we go through perrymenopods and are ovaryes butter. We have a lot less for deesterone because the quality and number of eggs that we have has really significantly declined, and there might be other changes in testosterone and cortisol and thyroid hormone. So this the ingredients in the soup fundamentally change, and for some of them that really feels like it changes who we are. Oh my God. Yeah, so and and, depending on what else is happening in your life, that can be really, really disconcerting. So one of my big things is is really trying to make sure that women know about all of this before they go...

...into parry menopause, because if you know that this change is coming, it's on your radar. Yeah, so you're not all of a sudden taken by surprise, or maybe you know it. You it helps you to advocate for yourself with your care providers so that you're not misdiagnosed. You know the average woman is misdiagnosed for four to five years before someone puts together all the pieces. You know. So there's just so much about this change that can be amazingly positive and that women can reflect on is being the best time of their life. So if you don't know what's happening, you don't know why it's happening and you don't know when it's going to happen, it can be scary. Yes, I totally agree with that. When you're saying that, you know, it was flashed into my mind. Is The book that we all read when we're having our first baby, what to expect when you're expecting, right, but and I just actually put together a webinar called what to expect when you're not expecting. Verry Meta clause. But I run a couple of times for that exact same reason. Yes, Oh, that's awesome, I love that. Yeah, because, you know, I mean I have four daughters and I've I've been thinking a lot of the past couple of years as I've gone through the worst part of it to date. What's what do I want them to know? And I do share. I share things with them, but I also don't want to scare the crap oottom of hect and I think that that's that's a really important thing, because there is a stigma that still exists around midlife that Midlife is the end. You know that your best years are your s and your s and that once you stop menstruating that you kind of lose value in society. Oh yeah, and so I think that there is some legitimate, I think, fears that women approached this time with. But I think that the more that we start talking about one what to expect, right, I mean it's you know, I use analogies a lot, probably too much, but I think that they helped me relate to the world, so I like to share them, but I often use the analogy of pregnancy. You know, we have come to a point in many countries where we recognize the value of pre native terror and even preconception care. So talking to women before they get pregnant, this is normal. This is what to expect, this is what not to expect. This is when you should ask for help. These are the things you can try, these are the people that can support you. And, you know, we can you imagine if forty percent of women who became pregnant had no idea that they were, why they become pregnant or how they became pregnant? Now we would think that that was an incredible failure of our for sure. For sure, forty percent of women in so many surveys were surprised that they were in Perrymenopaud and didn't even know the difference between perrymenopause and menopause. Oh, I can believe that. I can believe that. So I think that what we need to do to prepare the next generation is to talk about it throughout the reproductive life cycle and just to kind of reference it as stage of life. It's a season of life that every single woman on the planet goes through, whether it's natural, surgical, medical, whatever it is, every single woman will go through some experience of perrymenopause and then a pause. And so, you know, and really just talking about the amazing pieces of it's a confidence. You know, women in our S, you know, we thrive on the confidence we have. We know what we want, we know what we don't want, we know what we're not willing to give our time and energy to anymore, without any remorse. Right. That's an amazing gift of Midlife that I tell my daughters all the time. You know, you care about what you look like now, but you won't in thirty years of promiss exactly. So you're already having these conversations with your did you say daughters plural or just one other? So I have two daughters and one son and you know, and I mean you know, how I to tween and a team. So there's definitely at the age where my opinion doesn't carry much weight about anything. So I...

...try and be judicious and the advice that I offer, but I think I just try and talk about it like, Oh, I'm having a hot flash, or Oh, I didn't sleep well last night, you know, because I had some nights wets or you know, I really try and normalize it and for my daughter was just trying to normalize, you know, the things that happened with her cycle. That is just something we talked about. You know, that's awesome. Is Yeah, and hopefully, hopefully it's happening on a bigger picture, I think it is. I think there's I think that there's a cultural shift word normalizing all bodily functions and that a pause is just one of them. Yeah, unfortunately, for for my mom and maybe her generation or I'm not sure, maybe it was just more of her, you know, overall personality. But she never talked about it and you know, sometimes I think I intuitively knew she was suffering, but I didn't really fully understand it. And now, you know, looking back and reflecting on and of course it all made a lot more sense. But you know what you said earlier about you can feel like you've changed into an entirely different person. That's what I saw in her. Like I the woman, the mom that I grew up with in my childhood was not the mom in my adulthood. And you know, I mean we could go into detail on that, but what I'm saying is in the point I'm trying to make is she just she was always quiet. She's never a really loved, boisterous person, but she really went inside of herself and didn't really come out and it's sad, you know, it's sad that that women feel like they have to suffer in silence, because some of these things were going through aren't, you know, pleasant things to talk about, and I think that there's some layering there too that you know, yes, mood things are normal and yes, some mood changes are normal, but you know, the the incidence of anxiety and depression significantly increases in perimenopause. Women who have had a prior diagnosis of anxiety depression, who've had post part of depression, who have a family history of depression at all increases the risk. And you know, so many women that I work with and I've had conversations with, dismiss the symptom for years. She's just kind of chalking it up the hormones, chalking it up to whatever. And while hormones are possibly the root cause, and not sleeping well and feeling, you know, overwhelmed at all, of those other things that contribute to remood are valid. You know, I think this is where, if we teach women that these are the things, still look out for, that it helps them to advocate for themselves and just helps them to feel like they can talk to people and ask for help and say, you know what, I'm not feeling like myself and I don't like it. And I want some help to find, even if it's kind of reinventing yourself and finding the new you, or however you want to put that. It's understanding the changes and not just accepting them, but really being able to live with them. Because, you know, most women are age hopefully are going to be living for another forty year, fifty years. So yeah, I love that. I love that. You know, we're having these conversations that say, you know what, I might not be twenty, thirty or even forty anymore, but I have all this freedom now. I'm an empty Nester. So, you know, at the same time where you know you do miss being close to your children. My children don't live near me. I also feel like, okay, but that off. That opens up this opportunity for me to basically just pursue whatever passion I have and discovered new ones. And Yeah, I want more women to feel like that and I sadly feel like not enough women do know and there's so much I think that there's so much emphasis placed on a woman's identity in her child bearing years, even for women who don't have children right you know, they're so often that identity is as a mother or a mother figure or, you know, a woman who has the potential to become a mother. And so I think that for many women, once they are past...

...that reproductive stage and are no longer at an age where people are asking them if they're going to have babies or more babies, that they actually feel seen. They actually think that, you know, they feel like people are actually seeing them for who they are and not their reproductive potential, which is incredibly empowering for women, for sure. Yeah, totally. So let's move into talking about this intuitive eating, because I'm so excited about this. I you know, when I prepare for an interview I kind of have a couple of different approaches and I couldn't quite decide did I really want to dive into this and really have a strong knowledge base about it, or did I want to come about it as someone who didn't know anything and so that I could just be really real in my response. Is seruable, you know. So there was a kind of battle back and forth between those two two viewpoints, but at the end of the day I decided to do a little research and you know what, I've never been a fan of dieting. I've I'm not really a woman who's died it that much in her life. I can't say that I haven't felt like I should have died of a couple of different times. But I saw my mom my whole life. She was a yo Yo Dieter. You know, she would starve herself all week and then go out for fish by on Friday nights and it was frustrating for me to watch that. So I I kind of shied away from the whole dieting thing and in preparation for today's conversation, I reached out to all four of my daughters and I said, what kind of, you know, verbal and nonverbal messages did I send to you about, you know, your diet and your body image? And you know, thankfully, they were ninety nine percent positive, and so I'm thankful for that. But I want to talk about the Diet Culture specifically, like in the generational sense. Do you do you see that it's more generational or what is your thoughts on that? Yeah, definitely, and I think that that's a really interesting thing to pick up on, because I often say that for women in their S, we are, I think, the first generation of women who were raised by mothers who were kind of a pioneers of diet culture because their mothers were living through the war and so there was really no concept of, you know, intentionally restricting food or like. You know, there was just the whole idea that you had unlimited access to whatever you wanted, that you had to control and restrict. It was not something that my grandmother certainly would have had to think about when she was in her mothering years. And so if you think about really the the rise of Diet Culture, it started in the s but really started to peek in the S and S and S. right. So, if we think about the low back craze and then Atkins craze and wait watchers and Jenny Craig and Nutrau system and its whim fast and like, the list goes on and on and on. And so I think that for our generation, the conscious and subconscious messages that we received from a very young age, and maybe not even directly from our mothers, but from the women and the culture around us. And you know, the magazines at the grocery store that always had the how to lose ten pounds and fifteen days diet. You know the commercials, you know, because we were the TV generation, right. So everything that we saw was very, you know, often directed at mothers who stayed at home as well, because that was the demographic who had children who watched daytime TV, and so there was just a lot of conscious and unconscious messaging around you need to be slim, that the that the sin ideal is something that you should pursue at all costs and that there are in that there's an entire industry ready and willing to support you, and that even if it doesn't work, you have to keep trying. That really is at the core of the message that I think that women in Midlife received. And so when women get to Midlife, even if, and I'm saying if and kind of air quotations, they have...

...been quote unquote, in control of their diet and their body and feel like they have managed it well. And maybe that's Yoyo dieting, maybe that's restriction, maybe that's the meeting disorder, whatever it is. When women get Tomid like, our bodies change and a few things happen. One is that all everybody has a slowdown in their metabolism, men, women, doesn't matter. As we get older, are metabolism starts to slow as our hormonal soup changes. The distribution of where our body is softer changes as well. So women go from that classical hair shape to more of an apple shape. And as our estrogens to clients, the closer we get to menopause, there is a tendency to it's more inform resistance. So we have a kind of combination of things that happen that results in most women, and the research tells us that's about eighty percent, will gain weight in there for you and fifties, and that can be terrifying for women. And so you know, the idea that whatever you were doing for their you know, twenty years of your life stopped working, becomes almost frantic that we you know this. I need to do something different, I need to change, I need to try harder, I need to cut something out. So you know, that's just a really terrifying place, I think, for women to enter Midlife on top of all the other changes that are happening. Okay, great, I agree. Like you said, in our skin is changing, our emotions are sleep and then we get hit with this waking and you're right, it's like a loss of control. It's like what, what am I able to control right now? And Yeah, I could see that definitely and say that the Diet culture beliefs that are holding us back from having a relationship with food that is flexible and forgiving, that nourishes us from the inside out, that supports our physical and mental and emotional health. Is One the belief that we are supposed to be a certain weight for our entire life. You know, we all remember seeing those insurance charts that were in every biology book, every Diet Book. You need look up your hide and it would tell you that you're supposed to be in within this range, in this range, and th'll just start back to us right they you know, those charts were based often on twenty five year old men. You know, the BMI was invented in the eighteen hundreds, never said to be a marker for population health or individual health. So you know, a lot of the things that we believe to be true about weight and health aren't actually true. So we have those UN underlying belief that we have to maintain a certain number and that it's our job to control of that and if we're not controlling it then we're doing something wrong. And all of those things are wrong, yeah, damaging, and that's what the root of intuita eating so into the eating is is based is a framework for developing a relationship with food that helps people to become attuned to their body seeds, which means being able to respond to not just hunger and fullness, but also the need for rest, for joy, for movement, for pleasure, and to be able to respond to that in a way that doesn't require you to micromanage every decision. Yeah, and you know so, for women who believe that their weight is kind of the top of the pyramid or the top of the hierarchy of health, all of their decisions about those things are based on is this going to help the scale move, when in fact, using weight of a proxy for Health May actually not be accomplishing health at all, because you can be very unhealthy in a smaller body and you can be very healthy in a larger body. That's very true, I but I was probably at my thinnest...

...is right before I married my husband. I I just got through a really stressful time in life and I lost like fifty five pounds. I'm not someone who stress eats. I go to opposite direction. Sign lost like fifty five pounds and I don't even know what the time frame was but it didn't seem like it was a long time frame. And in the midst of all of that I developed horrible insomnia and a lot of like really awful stomach problems. I was having just I already had ibs, but this was something even more like acid reflux and just constant bloating in my stomach. So, yeah, I was a very thin woman, very unhealthy, you know. So I agree with that. And but you know, you said something earlier about BMI, and so I guess that that kind of raises the question a little bit. So you're saying that you can pretty much be healthy at almost any size? Is that what I'm hearing you say? Yeah, and so that there was actually the health at every size approach, which, you know, really encourages us to not use the number on a scale as a determinant of health, because the behaviors that are associated with health really are independent into that. So and a good example or a way to kind of explain why it's so important to not use weight as the barometer is, you know, I would work with women in the past, you know, and I al would say that probably about six or some years ago now I closed my practice to weight loss, because it really became clear to me that it was unethical, it was a treatment that was more likely to fail than succeed. You know, the statistics are somewhere that ninety to ninety five percent of Diet sail, meaning that at one, two or five years everybody has most people have either regained all the way that they lost for more, but that, you know, it just really became clear to me that it was doing more harm than good and the research was starting to support that that. You know, Yoyo dieting or weight cycling, for example, carries some metabolic risk and that that may actually be riskier than living in a larger body. So, you know, when I would work with women prior to closing my practice to weight loss and I recall woman, woman in particular, who decided to train for a k marathon. It was the for K race. It was the first time she's ever run in her life. She was in her s. She did the couch to k. She was running with a couple of other women. Loved it, felt great, ran the K. came to see me afterwards and I said how was it? She like great, but I'm giving up running. I'm never going to run again and I said why not? She said because the skill didn't move and I was like, I was like, but but you just told me that you were running three times a week, week with friends. You loved it, you love getting outside, you have more energy, you're sleeping better, your mood is better. But all of those things don't matter because the skills in most and that is the danger of putting all of our eggs in that basket. And so when we continue to tell women that you need to achieve this size, the shape in order to be healthy, we are not supporting them and all of the other behaviors that actually matter so much more to their health. Gosh, yeah, that that's that makes me a little sad actually to hear that story, because I know my daughter, one of my daughters, has taken up running in the past year or so and she talks about how it just reduces her anxiety, it helps for sleep better, and Oh that just that's a really sad message that society is, you know, kind of given us, isn't it? And one of the principles of intuitivating. So just to kind of back up a little bit, so into the eating is this framework of you know, to help you develop a healthy relationship with food and it's based on a book that was written. Initially, the first edition was in the by evil and Troubli and at least right for two dieticians. With now and it's fourth edition and has,...

...you know, I think, nearly a hundred research studies at this point to back it up as a as a really help promoting way to help people make decisions about food. But it has ten principles and one of the principles is joyful movement. And for women who have spent the bulk of their life in Diet culture, many of them have used exercises and means to an end. So when they decide to move their body, it's because they're trying to burn calories or they're trying to build muscles to burn more calories, or it's part of trying to get to that magic number in that calorie and calorieout equation. It's often to earn more food. You know, women will say, will often say will oh, I'm going to do a really hard work out it on this day because I'm going out to dinner. So what happens is that when that's your soul focus, the ability to enjoy movement for the sake of movements, to do things because they feel good and not just because they've burn calories, and to really reap the benefits of regular movement becomes really difficult, because if you push yourself to work out when you don't feel like yes, and you don't enjoy it, then that's not going to have the benefits that it would if you just move your body in the way that you want to. So a way to kind of illustrate this practically is that, you know, I set time aside four days a week for regular movement and but I never schedule what I'm going to do. So I typically will, you know, schedule three days during the week and one weekend. They where I'm going to take an hour, and I really just kind of decide that day like Oh, is it really nice though? What I like to go for a walk? Great, I'm going to go for a walk. Am I feeling kind of like a has some pent up, you know, energy and I want to, you know, do a pedal ball workout? Great, I'm going to do that. Or maybe I feel like going for a long bike ride with my husband. Great, I'm going to do that. So it's never about I'm trying to, you know, do cardio three times a week and strength training. However, I time the week, but it also means that I don't have a hierarchy of movement. So Yoga is incredibly beneficially beneficial for women in Midlife, but so many women don't do it because they feel like it's not enough of a workout. Yeah, so if we start changing the conversation as part of our relationship with food and movement to be how is this nourishing me, even if it's not burning as many calories as the other thing that I would do? You know, is this supporting me on my journey to health in Midlife? So, you know, it's it has there's a lot of conversations that need to happen because for many of us we've been indoctrinated and to die culture, like I said, from the time that we were young, right Jane Fonda and her in her leggings on tbf. You know, we it was deeply ingrained that this is what we should be doing. Yeah, I wanted to take a step back a second because you reminded me of something. I had this friend who really wanted me to go to Zoomba with her and I've never really been one to go to like group fitness classes. I kind of prefer to exercise on my own. And she just kept at me and kept at me until finally I'm like, okay, I'm going to go, I'm going to do this, I'm going to go. I hated it. I hated every single minute because, hi, what I love to do and I probably I live in a new area now and I probably seem a little stand offish because I've had a couple of women ask me, you know, to hey, let me know when you're going to go for a walk. But you know what, that's my me time, Jen. I owe in night way, I put in my ear buds, I have a a I live in the desert, so I have a nice desert trail that I walk on. That's, you know, somewhat challenging at certain points in the trail, but everywhere I look is beautiful, every mountain peak, every you know. And I yeah, I walk and sometimes I listen to, you know, a podcast or a book on tape or sometimes...

...it's just silence. But the entire time I'm walking I've got my dogs with me. I see how much they're enjoying it. I look around at the beauty, I go through my gratefulness list, it's you know, it's something I do for me and it's joyful. It is definitely joyful. So I'm so glad to hear you say that. I don't ever want to let anybody talk me in and doing some kind of exercises I don't enjoy ever again, after hearing you say no, and you know, and I think that it's it's just such an important piece of conversation because if there is one, you know, if I'm to call it a lifestyle change, that anyone can benefit from at any point of their life, it is regular movement and study sechually time and time again. This doesn't have to be Crossfis, this doesn't have to be running a marathon. We're talking about thirty or forty minutes of regular activity most days a week, and that can, a thousand percents be walking, it can be dancing, it can be yoga, it can be whatever. And so if we start to, you know, talk to women about you know, if you're going to put your time and energy and maybe money into something, let's put into something that matters, that's actually going to have to pay off. You're looking for, which for me is I want to be able to run around when I maybe, I want to be able to draw well, I want to be able to do all those things. You know, whether I fit into my wedding draft or not is completely irrelevant. Yeah, you know, and for so many women it is often those kinds of landmark that we hold onto so tightly as a measure of whether or not we're succeeding in our relationship with food and movement. Very true. So I wanted to touch on a couple of topics. This is more like a messaging thing, like I have this this theory that, you know, we kind of have these tapes that play in our head over and over and over right, and I was raised in a household that says you have to eat everything on your plate. Now don't. In my logical mind, I know I don't have to do that, but once in a while that message creeps up on me, even when I know I'm satisfied, and I've become, you know, a lot better at knowing when I'm satisfied, because I'm not someone who enjoys that really full feeling. It makes me actually pretty miserable. So I've really too little to being satisfied. But every once in a while that message creeps back up and it says, well, it's only a few more bite, you should just finish all this food. You don't want to waste it. We're going to have to get past that if we want to be kinder to ourselves and and listen and, as you're saying, with this intuitive eating, it's I want to understand it before we ender our conversation today. It's it's about making sure that we're listening to what ques were are bodies giving us? Is that? Is that kind of what you're saying? Yeah, and so we all experience hunger differently, but in general we all have a zone of comfortable hunger. Comfortable hunger is when we can choose mindfly and intuitively, we have the time to prepare what we're eating. We're not in that frantic state of I need to get food into my mouth as quickly as possible because I'm getting angry. That's not, as we call that primal hunger. And just like you perfectly described fullness, eating beyond your comfortable fullness is uncomfortable most of the time and it's not something we enjoy. And if you are either able to tune into that or can learn to tune into that. That that's kind of one of the big scales of intuitiating is kind of learning to identify what comfortable fullness feels like. But in order to stop up when you're comfortably full, you have to truly believe that you have unconditional permission to eat, meaning you have to believe that you can go back for more if you want for any reason. Maybe it's because it's grandmon special recipe and you really want more of it because you only get in a holidays, or maybe you...

...don't want it because it's what you have every Friday and it's just there. But if you really truly believe that you can and the choice of yours, then it becomes much easier for you to make a decision about what to do in that moment. And for many of us, I think again, who had mothers, who were raised by Mother's during the war, I think we had a lot of messaging around joey food. It was in my house. It was the only cardinal thin really. Yeah, and and I often joke with my dad, who was born kind of before the work, that he you know, my house didn't have a lot of food policing. There was some guy culture, but there wasn't a lot of food policing. But the one thing that would get my very peaceful, loving dad upset was wasting food. And as a teenager I made a lot of craft dinner because of what we did the S and, you know, like a lot of people, I would bake the whole box but I would probably only eat about half and I would put what I didn't eat in the fridge, never to be eaten again, because no one eats three get a craft dinner. And he would get on me and he'd harp on me and eventually I just started eating the whole thing because, and that gives occurred to me till about five years ago that, you know, it became at some point just then I'm just going to finish it so that I don't get, you know, yelled, that kind of thing. So I think that for a lot of us we have unconscious beliefs about food and for women and our generation, food wastage is a huge one. You know, I think it's irritated with me because it'd be like, Oh, come on, that's a dollar. I'm like what, it's wasted food. Yeah, it isn't very much part of me. For sure, absolutely. And you know, at the end of the day, once we have worked with your relationship with food and you know we have done our best to be able to tune into hunger and fullness and satisfaction, because that affection is really the Cruxi of intuitive eating, that you know, you have to feel that you've enjoyed what you've eaten. It doesn't have to be perfect in a five storm meal every time, but you shouldn't, at the end of your meal, think I wish I'd had something else or I'm not quite feeling satisfied. And so, you know, when we get through all of that and we've unpacked all of your conscious and unconscious beliefs about food and we've, you know, uncoupled your beliefs about weight and health, we can come back to gentle nutrition, which often includes Justin discussions around meal planning. And you know, if food waste is something that's happening a lot, you want to change it. Well, let's talk about how you've got let's talk about how you mail plan, let's talk about how you shop, let's talk about how you can, you know, Cook once and eat twice and so I think that there are ways, because I think food wastage is a real concern. I don't want to dismiss that and really, if my kids were here, they would tell you that I often sometimes say that too. But I think that we need to change the reason why we're doing it and that that can ultimately, I think, help be part of that changing relationship with food. You know who I wish? I wish Americans would would kind of emulate a little bit more our Italians, because when my husband and I went to Italy we both saw something so different and experienced the way they eat and enjoy food, as you know. When so one night were in this restaurant and I'm a I'm a early eater because we tend to go to battle early and I don't like to go to sleep with food in my stomach, so I'm I'm usually trying to eat, you know, around five PM thirty. If it gets much later than I'm starting to get a little cranky. But I you know, when we were in Italy, they eat so much later than we do and we were in a restaurant one night and I swear it must have been about thirty, which was way past the time I normally like to eat, and there was this huge group of people and we were just sort of sitting there, you know, observing them, and finally I asked our waiterer, I said, are they celebrating something? And he's like yeah, they're celebrating their meal and I was like God, I felt really dumb, but you know, but they were. It was this huge family in...

...the age ranges were, you know, from the grandmotherly age all the way down to a baby in a high chair, and they were laughing and just luxuriating over their food and they sat there for a long time. They were there before we got there and they were there probably long after we left. But they just go about meal time and eating so much different than we do in America. I feel like we, you know, we wilfty on our food. We eat, you know, we're on our phones. Why we eat? We're watching TV. Way We eat, we're not enjoying the experience of eating enough and not mindful eating is definitely something that I think everyone can work on. Mind believing is a little different than intuitive eating. Become mine believing. I describe it as more of the things that you do, whereas into the eating is a bit more of a framework for your relationship with food. But you know, eating while not distracted is an important piece of satisfaction and also a tunument. So being able to tune into comfortable fullness and knowing when you've had enough to feel satisfied requires that you be present. Yeah, you know it's there have been studies that I've shown that when people are in front of a screen they eat sometimes thirty to forty percent more, and and that's because, you know, they're they're multi tasking, and if there's one thing that our brain doesn't do well, it's multitask while we eat, unless we are in the presence of other people. Were being social. So eating amongst others, while talking and being social increases our satisfaction. That is so true. It's true and it really it actually even became part of the Brazilian food guide. It was added to the new Canadian updated food guid that making you know, meals with your family at a table, sitting down. Make that a priority because that's a part of a healthy relationship with food. I love that. I was just thinking about it this morning. You know, easters coming up and we're going to be going to Kansas City to spend time with my my daughters and their husband's and my grandson and my one son in law and I love to cook together and I was thinking about a couple of recipes I'd come across lately and I was just kidding. I was feeling so happy to even be like thinking about sharing a meal with my kids. Oh, that's so cool. I love that. I love that and I have noticed that to like when I've been out to happy hour with, you know, one of my closest girlfriends, I don't think I eat like maybe a quarter as much as I would normally eat, but I feel so satisfied when I get up and leave from there. It's the converstation, it's yeah, it's just everything. Yeah, it's awesome. I love that and I think that one of the reasons why I became so passionate about including into the eating as part of the work that I do for women in Midlife is because so many women get to this point in life and, you know, many of them would come to anything. I don't even know what to eat anymore. I can't believe that I'm a four year old woman and I haven't figured this out yet. What's wrong with me, you know? Or let's say I've done every diet under the sun and it's not working. What's wrong with me? And so, as part of this midlife freedom and this, you know, Midlife reinvention of who am I, what matters to me, what do I want the rest of my life to look like? You know, the magic that happens when women aren't focused solely on making their body smaller is incredible. And you know, if we if we can teach women, you know, to eat intuitively and to trust their bodies to tell them what, when and how to eat and when to eat and what they like and what they don't, that's completely independent of whatever Diet Culture Bs' is out there. It is so empowering and it's health promoting and at the end of the day, that's what really matters. MMM, and everything you're saying me to so much sense, but I think you know you've got your work cut out for you a little bit. I think it's going to be a tough mindset shift for...

...some people. It is, it is, and and this is where so anybody who follows me and social media has seen me reference to the messy middle because lots of women come to me and they're like that's it. I'm done with dining. I can't start with another diet on another Monday. I'm ready to, you know, do something different. You to help me and and then they can see the end of Oh it'll be so great when I'm there. But all of the stuff that happens in the messy middle is the fear and the doubt and the questioning and the kind of, you know, being lured to someone else who's diet again and seeing what has worked for another friend, and all of that comes from not trusting our body. Yeah, it comes from fundamentally believing that there's something that we're doing wrong and that we just have to keep looking for the right solution. So you know it. I really encourage women that there are some incredibly wonderful people in the space who work with whom in Midlife and with into the eating and just don't do it alone. You know, whether it's me or anyone else, you know you don't have to suffer through the messy middle. You can come through it, you know, with support and feeling so much better on the other end. Yes, Jen, I love that we're talking about this. I feel like we could talk about this for hours and I love I love that I'm coming across women every day who are advocates for US midlife women. Thank you for all you are doing. Thank you so much. Thank you and Jen. Where can our listeners find you and continue to learn from you? You have so much knowledge to share. Well, I always joke that instagram is my one true love, so it's always you know, you can always find me there at menopause dot nutritionist and I really love the conversations that happen there on social media. And here you can also find me at Jens to leave humor DOT CAA and depending on where you live, because I do have some regulatory restrictions on who I can work with one on one. So parts of Canada, some Canadians can work with me. But I put together a course called the thinking woman's guide to menopause and Perrymenopause, which is really designed just to do everything that I talked about at the beginning, which is educate women about what's happening, teach them what their options are so that they can approach their care and the discussions of their care providers in an informed way. But it we've into the beating to all of this. So for women who are in perimenopause and just looking for something different. They can't do another diet and they really need to understand what's happening with their body. Myself Study, course, is you know where I would point them to, because that's exactly what I've decided to do, and I will make sure that there are links in the show notes that people can find all of that wonderful information. But, Jen, thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule to be here with me today. It was such a pleasure. Thank you so much, Harry. I've loved the conversation with you. Thank you so much for joining me. I hope you enjoyed today's conversation as much as I did. If you'd like to continue the conversation, come on over and join our private facebook group what women want today, and love to hang out with you some more there. Any resources mentioned in today's episode will be in the show notes. You can find me on facebook and Instagram at what women want to day podcast, or visit my website at what women want to daycom please remember to subscribe, download and share. Leave me a review. It helps other amazing women find the show and become a member of our community. One last thing for you today. You are not alone. You are worthy of love and a fulfilled life. Now it's time to go after it.

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