What Women Want Today
What Women Want Today

Episode 58 · 8 months ago

The Messy Middle


We often hear stories of the moment that made us realize we needed to make a change and we hear how happy we are once we find the new success.

But what about the messy middle?

Today, Dena T, Host of Empowered 2 Heal Podcast and I have a conversation about all of the things happening there (messy middle)

1) Grief - Even when you have a choice in the change the loss can still be a part of the transistion while you're learning 

2) Imposter Syndrome - You ask yourself "who do I think I am to think I can do this" 

3) From confident competence to Ground ZERO in your new role

4) The importance of a support system and community - using your social circle to talk and share feelings

5) Growth is accompanied by difficulties and discomfort

For more discussion join me on Facebook or Instagram 

You can allways email me HERE 

Hello and welcome to the what women on today podcast. You might be asking yourself right about now. Well, what do women want? I mean we're pretty complex creatures, right. Well, I think we weren't it all, and I'm here to export with you. My name is Terry Kellums, I'm your host. Go grab your favorite beverage, I've already got my glass of wine, and let's get started. Hello and welcome to this week's episode of what we want today podcast. This is Terry Kellum's, your host, and I'm very happy to be with you today. Today I am refifiting a conversation I had with my friend and podcast host Dina t Dina and I had an IG life conversation. Let's been quite a while ago, and we talked about the messy middal. So oftentimes on the PODCAST I interview guests who share their story of their pivot and what led them to it and where they are today. However, I don't always spend a lot of time talking about what happens in the messy middle. So today you will hear Dina and I talk about grief in Pastor Syndrome, growth, what it feels like to make changes and how, in the messy middle. You can go from feeling very competent to feeling like you're back at Ground Zero. You feel like you don't have the level of confidence that you had in your previous role. Sometimes. Tina and I also talked about how growth doesn't come without difficulty and discomfort. So I'm glad you hear with us today. I thank you for being here. Now let's join the episode. All right, so I'm so glad you have you join me. To stay, Dina. Do you want to do a quick introduction of yourself so everybody that's watching knows who you are, my lovely friend? Yes, so, my name's DNA's. I am the host of the empowered to heal podcast and I am also an empowerment coach. I focus a largely I'm working with Mama's as well as those who have gone through trauma, and I feel so honored to join you today. Terry and I've been connected ever since we started our podcasts. That's been such a beautiful friendship. It is, and you know so. I talked to a lot of women on the podcast to make pivots right, and it takes courage, especially when it's something that feels, I left field. For Your family and your social circle. When I don't get to talk to people a lot, or what doesn't usually come out in the conversation is kind of what is referred to as like the messy middle, right. So, you know, we get to know like the before story, like in the you know, the moment that our lives kind of like took a change, we made that pivot, and and how happy and satisfying fulfilled we are now that we're, I don't know, I would say living out my purpose. Would you say the saying are you living out your purpose? Tina? Yeah, I would say I am, but I still feel like I'm in a messy medal as well. Yes, we are in the messy middle, and so I thought we were talking about like, you know, like some of the things that people go through after they make that pivot, because there can be some grief, a feeling of impostor syndrome, but there's also a lot of growth. So I thought that's what we could talk about today, was all those juicy things that kind of are happening in the middle. What's what's sort of well, let's start with grief, because I know we've talked about this a little bit before. Just you and I about that feeling of grief that you can experience when you leave something that is so comforting and so familiar to you. Talk to us a little bit about the Greek that you experienced after you left your profession that you have done in for like ten years. Yeah, so I was, I am, a social worker and I was an assistant program director of an outpatient mental health clinic, doing some really exciting work working with Youth and their families, and they're like the most at risk youth in our community here in Maricopa...

County, in Arizona, and in my work there I had spent ten years kind of really honing my skill set and being very good at what I did, at assessing needs and developing interventions, training staff, designing programs, developing programs, and I left that world. I made a really big decision this past February to say goodbye because there were some things in my life that didn't feel right and doing that work, and one of those things was I I believe that we all have the power within ourselves to heal and that is not given to or owed to any external source. It's something that we develop, that strength inside ourselves. So when Ra or emotional healing journey. It's about what we learn and how we embrace life and go through life, move through life, adapt in order to heal. And working in a public mental health clinic, it's all about the clinicians your assigned to or putting you in treatment centers. Right. So I finally was like, okay, I've had enough, I'm just going to separate. And I didn't. I wasn't like somebody who had all of my ducks in a row. I didn't say, okay, I've been doing this for ten years, let me start figuring out something on the side to supplement what I'm doing and then transition gracefully over. I just kind of said, okay, I know that I want to start a podcast and that's all I know. And I jumped from being in a position of truly like knowing my craft, toning my craft, being a leader and in a position that gave me a lot of pride and fulfilled a lot of needs that I have in my life of being a helper and supporting people and feeling like a contributor to my house's income, my family's income. I jump from that into a realm of complete uncertainty and learning and I didn't know how to podcast. I was learning. I didn't know how to market. I was learning. I didn't know how to use social media for anything but connecting to my friends and family. I was learning. I didn't know how to build a website. I had to learn. I didn't know all of these things that I had to end up figuring out and I'm still figuring out this journey, and it puts you into this shock of like Whoa, how do I go from being here very competent, confident and and feeling like a vibe and what I'm doing so like being at the ground level of like learning everything and being responsible for everything, so that that is still great, fright, like you miss the opportunities of like feeling confident within yourself, like feeling like yeah, I feel like you know you're doing right. Yeah, yeah, and I would say my experience was a little bit similar actually, whereas you know, I'd spent I'd spent my life like probably trying to prove myself, if I'm going to be really transparent, like trying to kind of break out of this mom that was a teenage pregnant mom into somebody that could feel like she could be respected and so, you know, each position I had I just kept building upon and building upon and bettering myself and learning more and never missing an opportunity for growth in my field and I cut that level. I got to that level where I felt like I felt good about what I was doing. I was a natural leader because I just cared so genuinely about people and I love that so much. But you know, in the corporate world things are shifting and I just wasn't. I wasn't doing well with some of the shifts that they were making. I couldn't. I did I loved the company I was working for, I loved the people that I was working with...

...and the people I was helping, but I couldn't stay aligned to some of the direction that they were going in and I just felt like I was at this place in life where I needed to do something more and I felt good when I made the decision. But then, you know, after your you make the decision to leave and you're learning and you're struggling with some of the aspects of your new life, you do sort of like reflect back and it always looks better in hindsight to you know, I mean that's just that's just part of the story we tell ourselves. It was like, oh my gosh, that grass was so beautiful and greating back there, but we all know, like you know, the grass is never green or on the other side. But now I started looking back and and just I did feel like it was like a sense of grief, missing that feeling that I felt every day when I walked into work, like I was there for a reason. I you know, I was impactful, I was making a difference in those employees live and they were making a difference in mine for sure, and they filled me up, they filled my cup. They were like my family, my second family. And Yeah, I mean you go through that period of time and you're like, I don't have that now, and now every day is uncertainty and the struggle and a lot of learning and, especially if you're working at home by yourself as a Solo entrepreneur for the very first time, you're like, I'm all alone here, there's nobody to bounce ideas off, except for now. I hear you, but for the longest time, you know, you've kind of just feel like you're doing it on your own. And Yeah, I think you need a really good support system if you're going to do something like this. Yeah, I appreciate this dialog because I feel like people need to understand that the medicine metal is not something you can skip over. I know when we were talking about it a few days ago, we're talking about people always show the end results and they talk about like, Oh, it was so easy, and I think sometimes we do that first show and sometimes we do that because we forget, we forg the difficulty of what we went through when we're experiencing the highs of like where we've gotten. But every single person deserves to know like you're not alone in the messy middle. I don't know a single person in this world who didn't go through the messy middle unless they were like eating off of silver spoon right in the world's like snap their fingers to have people do things for them or make athings for them. Yeah, exactly. So, what about impostile or Syndom Syndrome? Have you experienced? Yes, So, im poster center. My I'm not. I'm not new to it, even prior to becoming an entrepreneur. So I really battled this a lot and I started kind of my podcast out with some discussion around becoming a mom and my postcard in journey and my post parting journey was difficult. It was overwhelming and I had so much anxiety and I had so much so many struggles with like intrusive thoughts, and I then went back to work as a clinician, providing therapy and leading teams on how to help people who had as all struggles, and I was like, who am I, who am I to do bits like in my own right right now, and I battled imposter syndrome and also learned at the same time that you can be both. Am Right, you can go through struggles and still be good at what you do and you don't have to pick one side or another. And I'm real learning that in my job now, because I want like building online courses, providing coaching, doing a podcast, and I'm like, who am I, New Baby Entrepreneur right like stepping into this field as an entrepreneur,...

...and I have to remind myself I all of my skills and accomplishments and tools and knowledge before this new title and role do not disappear because I've stepped into a new role. And I think back to a call I was on once in a group meeting, where someone said if you were a white male, you would have no problem claiming your accomplishments up until this light, but because you are a female, you do. You are a female, you can question that. You start putting yourself in a box, and society does this to and I was like, that's a really good perspective. Like when I look at all of these really successful males in the world to have come so far and they make it seem easy and they claim things from twenty years ago in their bioh of who they are and and what makes them I can do that too, right. I am still that person who's done all of these things and they still serve what I'm accomplishing today. So it's really keeping perspective. Yeah, that is so true. So I can totally relate to that because I feel like, you know, even like something is maybe, maybe, what would seem like unimportant, like sales skills, like I was in sales for years, you know, and that translated into understanding what it felt like to be on both sides of the sales process. I was able to train people those seales process, but now I use that skill to relate to my audience or to relate to my the person I'm interviewing, you know, and you're right, some of those skills are very, very transferable and very relevant for what we're doing now. You know. Yeah, I love that. I love that point that you made and I think we meet each other to remind each other of that right, like I'm grateful that I have you every week and we talk at a predictable time and I can be reminded of the things that I need to be reminded of to ground me for the next week the time, because I can't just live in my own head. Again, as a solo entrepreneur, I it gets dark in there sometimes and using and I start questioning what's my intuition and what's my fear, and I started questioning, like is this my gut telling me that I need to like go in a different direction, or am I just overwhelmed, and having somebody to anchor with matters, and I think it helps beat that imposter syndrome and I feel like we can get that in cheerleaders on the side of people who love us, nurturing us on but we also need to get it in a way that's so raw, real and authentic, of somebody else who understands it. That can like pull us back in one hundred percent. And I think you and I both share the philosophy about the importance of community and I am I will never stop talking about it because I feel like it is so important for, I'm gonna say women. I don't know. Okay, I think about my husband and his social circle and I think about the difference between that social circle in the female social circle, and I think it's different. I think we're much more willing to like talk about our feelings and be vulnerable with each other. And I could be assuming, I could make the be making some generalizations, but I really feel like community for women is so important in a lot of different stages in life. You know, like think about the the baby stage, you know when you were talking about postpartum. I mean I'm sure you need to support system. And then you know you've got the teenage years. You know you're struggling to deal with all the challenges of raising a teenager, and then empty nests and then menopause. Like there's so many points in our life that we need support from other females that even our own spouse can't really provide for us. I mean they don't they just don't fully understand. They want to, I believe they want to, but they don't fully understand some of the things that we're going through and experience. Yeah, it's community that you can relate to. Right. Like I, as a clinician, as somebody trained and providing various modalities of therapy, I still experienced...

...postpard and struggles and I was confused by them. I everyone talks about postparting depression, everybody talks about the baby blues. Nobody talks about intrusive thoughts, nobody talks about postcard and anxiety. They don't even scream for those things. That the doctor's office it's all about depression and interventions are all about depression and right. And I was like what, what am I going through right now, and how does this relate to to becoming a mom? Is this just me now? Is this just what motherhood is? Is this normal? Amba, an outcast and I suffered in silence. I because of impostor syndrome. I suffered in silence and once I opened up around like wait a second, like no, this isn't normal, and I labeled it. I spoke about it in a podcast. People started reaching out to me and they're like thank you, like nobody, like I needed to hear that. My wife, I made her listen to this and it hit home for her. Or all of this feedback and like nobody talked about it. So I started researching. I was like I'm eating my butt into all of the support groups out there for postpartum seasons, because I can't be the only one experiencing the anxiety and alone. Behold. There's tons. I did a survey in a few of my groups and the number one symptom that everyone reported was anxiety. Depression was like third down and so, but we don't talk about it. We asked parents were like, Oh my God, this is just motherhood and I think this is just how it is, and it's no, it's not. And so it's like finding the people you can relate to that hold that place in their heart of like yes, like we are not alone, then we heal. But when we feel like we're the outcasts or that one's only one experiencing it, like we suffer. Well, I think, I think this visual always comes into my head is like that's the Ashma of you know, like it's one person that starts it right, it's one person that's brave enough and if we can, like it's almost like if we can visualize that, like if you can be that person that's brave enough to put yourself out there and say, Hey, I'm struggling with us. You know, in my community would probably look more like I'm struggling with these hot flashes, I'm struggling with insomnia and lots of anxiety and menoplause as well. I'm struggling with night sweats. And if it just that one person can be vulnerable enough to get out there and be the first one to dance at the party, then I think a lot full will be willing to just like join in. Right now. We got a party. To be that first person. It is hard to be the first person. Yeah, I want to. I want to acknowledge happiness. Is My day job. Here real here, real quick. She joins every week and I appreciate her being here with us. She comes from, Oh, I just lost her, coming pearl of the Orient. See, she says, and it's mourning for her, but she says because we need empathy while undergoing the myriad of journeys in our lives. That's female humans. I think she was relating back to our comment about females, you know, in friendship and in community. So yeah, but you know what prompt did this talk today was something that we said last week and that's probably what our last little topic will be here before we jump into my fun new game that I play. But we talked about, you know, as we're sort of being that support system for each other and as were, you know, allowing each other and giving each other's space to kind of lament a little bit about, you know, some of the struggles that we're going through and you know, how things aren't may be turning out exactly the way we'd hope, that we've had some fails. Like right, we fallen down a little bit. We've had to pick ourselves back up and we feel comfortable doing that together. But one thing we also always do together at the end, is before the call is over, before we're done with our chat, is we acknowledge...

...our growth, because you don't go through something like this without growing, right. I mean I think that's the most important lesson to take away from this is the growth. So what are your thoughts on the growthing we've been through as you journey? Yeah, I agree, and I'm glad that we recap on growth. We also talked about like what are we going to do next? Right, like, okay, we've talked, we supported, we've brainstormed. Don't what are we committing to over this next week? And that's part of growth as well. When I reflect, like growth, growth doesn't come without difficulty, right, without discomfort. I can't. I could have never gotten into where I did and my job, where I felt successful, without years of difficulty, without years of like living in the trenches, of doing the hard stuff and and understanding the INS and out of the brain and then behaviors and relationships and can mutity and culture. And I had to live in that place, surrounded by it, in order to make sense of it and then be able to dissect it for others to be able to make sense of. And that that came with understanding that growth is uncomfortable and I don't like it. In the moment I push it away, I'm like, oh, that's uncomfortable and I don't want it right going and then I'm like, okay, I need it, so I'm going to intentionally do one uncomfortable thing to day, right, so like force myself to build that resilience. But the ability to sit in discomfort without judgment right, without looking for the escape like that is where the true growth happens in my mind, and it doesn't have to be torture. Right, we're not saying I'm in torture, but to recognize that uncomfortable things are challenging us and understand why is it challenging me in this way? Do I like it? No, do I want it? Is it going to get me where I want to go? Maybe, and if it it's a maybe, I'm going to invest in the discomfort it it's not going to get me where I'm going to go and it's making me uncomfortable, I might say, okay, no, I'm going to find a different route because this isn't resonating with who I am as a human and my goal. But I think a hundred percent like being able to bring growth back or bring the mindset I've broke back after talking about discomfort, to kind of get us to the end stage. They're okay. So what are we going to do next with this now that we understand it right? Is it resonating? Is it fitting us well and of the growth? And let me real quick before I go into my next sent since here I'm going to say hi to my daughter. I just thought she thinks I always say hide everybody sel'll say hied or real quick, uncomfortable things are challenging us. Code of the day. Yeah, I love that to happiness. So yeah, I think part of the growth to is also just that level of self awareness that just seems to just keep increasing, and part of that is knowing when you are outside of your skill set and when to kind of wave the white flag and ask for help. So that was what I wanted to add it to the growth conversation. But have you seen me play this game yet? It makes me anxious. So so this is by pod decks and I have a code for this. If you want to save ten percent to send me a message and I'll provide it with a code. But I think this game is so fun for, like, I don't know, parties and team building events and, you know, maybe even with your partner, to just get to know each other a little bit better have some deep intimate conversations. We're going to do three of them and I'll throw the question out there to you for you to answer and then you'll throw it back to me right and I don't cheat. So here we go. On to this. PULL A random one. All Right, are you ready? If you were musically inclined, who would you want to have a private GM session with? Oh, it's gonna be hard ones. I don't think either one of us are big music people, right, and we talked about this one. We both are bigger readers who we...

...are music listeners. Yeah, I think. Okay, I'm tossed between John Mayer and Taylor Swift. Taylor siscuse. I'm a swift ye at heart, and choice I she's so talented in so many ways. And John Mayer, I feel like, has somebody's just so swoethy. Yeah, he has like the philosophical perspective on life. That would be so exciting to engage round. What about you? Okay, well, now that you brought in the swoon factor, I would probably say like Adam leaving. But I really would probably choose Tom Petty because my grandson is like the Hugest Fun Petty Fan and if he could see his Mimi with John Petty, that would or Tom Petty, not John Petty, Tom Petty. That would just make his day. So my father will go to petty. All Right, here we go, Tina. We've already talked about this a little bit too, but I don't know if you remember this conversation. What would you do with an extra hour in a day? Um, currently, I think my auntswer would change depending on my mood. I would spend it being fully and entirely in the moment with my family, somewhere that I love, without a worry or care of anything else in the world, just being in the moment. That's good. I like it. If I am gonna be hard to stop that one, Dina, anything else I say is going to make me feel show. No, no. So I was realizing this today, as a matter of fact, that sometimes, like we we can be as humans. We can say to ourselves like something works so good, we just stopped doing if you work that expression like you just like you have a routine for a while and then something gets you out of the routine and then you know, all of a sudden these things are starting to happen to you and you're like, Oh yeah, I haven't been meditating, I haven't been stretching, I haven't been going through my grateful in this list. I you know, like just could be a myriad of, you know, different habits that you have that you kind of lose track of but I think today I would probably say do like reading just for pleasure, because I kind of away from it, like my life is so full right now of busyness and I don't know, like learning. I'm just feel like I've been working on getting my website fixed and I've been learning the any a Graham and I've just been learning my brain. My brain is so full I feel like I could just sit for an hour a day and just read for just pure pleasure. It would probably be. It create such an escape ape in your mind. Does does since I was a child, like I've always felt that way. So all right, last car Dina, you've gotten not the easy so far. I'm going to say this might be a doozy yours, grass, don't know this will be easy. Okay, what was the best Bosh you ever had and what made them the best? What was the best? What boss? Oh, oh, Gosh, I don't know. I don't think I can pin it down to one specific person, but I could share quality of a good boss. That okay, that's fair. I'll take it. Okay. So I think what makes a good boss is somebody who cares about you as a personal person. And individual, your individual dreams and beliefs, and promotes that passion that you have inside yourself and what you're working towards in a way that connects with what you're doing every day. Love, and mine is actually a person and he has been my...

...favorite person for many years and I feel like he put me on a path that probably led me to exactly where I am today. and His name was Andy to pay. So I'm gonna are you still there? Looks like our signal might be off. I'm just going to keep talking this in case we're still going here. But Andy do pay, he was a great boss, a great leader. He encouraged me to to stop just working for him and to kind of become my own boss, and so many words that. It's a long explanation, but I'll just say that. So, yeah, I give him a lot of credit. He's a he's a great guy. I'm still friends with him to this day. Actually just talk to him today. So yeah, I still have so much respect for him and consider him one of the best leaders I've ever had. And it looks like we lost Dina. So we were done with our three questions for the day. I just want to thank everybody for jumping on joining me today, and you can always share this recording with anybody who you feel might be interested in the content. There's that little arrow down by the comment box all the way over to the right. If you just push that, you can send it off to somebody and invite them to join us. That little bubble in the middle you can always ask any questions and they'll kind of hang out over to the side, because sometimes your comments they get long and I don't see them all as we're talking. But just thanks for being here with me. I am thank you, happiness, for always joining me. I appreciate you so much and I will look forward to seeing you guys next week. So have a great week. Thank you so much for joining me. I hope you enjoyed today's conversation as much as I did. If you'd like to continue the conversation, come on over and join our private facebook group what women want today, and love to hang out with you some more there. Any resources mentioned in today's episode will be in the show notes. You can find me on facebook and Instagram at what women want to day, put cast or visit my website at what women want to daycom please remember to subscribe download and share. Leave me a review. It helps other amazing women find the show and become a member of our community. One last thing for you today. You are not alone. You are worthy of love and a fulfilled life. Now it's time to go after it.

In-Stream Audio Search


Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (89)